While it is true that there is existence after death for both the believers and non-believers, there is no relationship between the living and the dead. The limbo of the fathers as it is called was somewhat mysterious. Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going. 19952023 All correspondence and questions should be sent to info@ucg.org. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; n evermore will they have a share i n anything done under the sun." In other words, for sure we know it couldn't be Samuel . . Start for FREE. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." King James Version (KJV) < Previous Verse Next Verse > View Chapter Ecclesiastes 9:5 Context The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. You will really be talking to demons who pose as them. They take this to mean that the grave is the end.. And even those that believe in a resurrection think this means we lay in the grave until the return of the Lord that, we are in a . These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. Read by Pernell Harrison, Speaker . Ecclesiastes 9:5 ESV / 63 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead don't know anything, neither do they have any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. These are the go-to verses for Adventists, Jehovahs Witnesses, and others who deny it. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. O death, where is your sting? Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. . And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. The writer of Ecclesiastes is focusing upon what happens under the sun until the very end when he tells us that the after-life is the place where everything will finally make sense. The Bible The Dead Know Nothing Ecclesiastes 9:3-10 : The Dead Know Nothing Study King James Version | 3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead . New American Standard Bible These men were teachers of soul sleepas were the inspired writers of Scripture, such as the apostle Paul. What does it mean that there is nothing new under the sun? . The tree continues to live, whereas a man will not. Many believe the soul is immortal and remains conscious apart from the body after death. After death a person returns to dust - Psalm 104:29 They know nothing - Ecclesiastes 9:5 The dead possesses no mental powers - Psalm 146:4 The dead do not live - 2 Kings 20:1 They wait in the grave - Job 17:13 And continue no more - Job 14:1,2 They have nothing more to do with anything on earth - Ecclesiastes 9:6 But without that vision he cannot. And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole worldhe was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day. 3 This [is] an evil among all that hath been done under the sun, that one event [is] to all, and also the heart of the sons of man is full of evil, and madness [is] in their heart during their life, and after it -- unto the dead . 3)What about the part that says the sons of the dead man come to honor, and he does not know it; they are brought low, and he perceives it not? Job is writing at a time, before the advent of Christ, when the dead did not experience the Beatific Vision. Verses like John 6:48 and Ezekiel 18:9 provide some clearer instructionseat of the bread of life and follow God's lawsbut even the biblical figures who were most just and upright still died in the end.Across the whole of scripture, the only definition that seems clear is the simplest: good is life; evil is death. 6 After Solomon observed that the living know that they will die, he wrote: "But the dead know nothing at all." He then enlarged on that basic truth by saying that the dead can neither love nor hate and that "there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave." (Read Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10.) Compassion is hidden from my eyes. As Tyndale sarcastically presents it: Nay, Paul, you are unlearned; go to Master [Thomas] More, and learn a new way. [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. There are three points to consider in order to clear up this apparent difficulty: 1) Job compares man to a tree, which continues to blossom again; or "return" to this life. "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is your victory? This was the desire of Davids heart all of his life as we see here in Psalm 27:4: One thing have I asked of the Lord, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the Lord, and to inquire in his temple. Click to reveal Job obviously believes man will be resurrected. However in the same verse Solomon said that the dead "have no more reward" and yet we know the dead in Christ have an inheritance reserved . When a wicked man dies, his expectation will perish, Website by Stormhill Media. Cloudflare Ray ID: 78bb662b4a5181f3 That sounds like we should join the local Seventh-day Adventist community, doesnt it? shall the dead arise and praise thee? 3. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. Cite this page: Editor: Stephen Smith. For there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going. 173.236.149.92 It further assures that there is no . O Sheol, where is your sting? He says the tree has the advantage! This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The inspired author does not say the dead have no existence at all. As the foremost authority, God inspired the wisest imperfect man, King Solomon, to right this truth in the Bible: Eccl.9:5 For the living know that they will die, " but the dead know nothing at all" , nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. If it is to be life in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. And that vision was not to be had in the days of Job, not until Jesus died. The Bible tells us that "the dead know nothing" (Ecclesiastes 9:5) and that the very day that they die, their "thoughts perish" (Psalm 146:4, KJV). Publisher: OpenBible.info. Luke 16:25-26 "But Abraham said to him, 'Son, remember that during your lifetime you had everything you wanted, and Lazarus had nothing. It does not store any personal data. D Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the . But, in the end, the writer of Ecclesiastes knows that justice is coming in the next life. Visit the Bible online to search for words if you dont know the specific passage yourre looking for. United Church of Godis a501(c)3organization. Notice how many times the inspired author said under the sun? Three times in these few short verses! Subscribe to the CompellingTruth.org Newsletter: What does it mean in Ecclesiastes 9:5 that 'the dead know nothing'? S 9:5 for that belief, ignoring the contex. Luther and Tyndale on Death: The Dead Know Nothing. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. He is not denying an afterlife. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Ecclesiastes 9:3-10 : The Dead Know Nothing. The State Of The Dead. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. 5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Video recorded on October 31, 2016. O death, where is your sting?. A dead man or woman will not come up out of the grave and return to his or her house. As such, this verse cannot be used as a . For your dew is a dew of light, and the earth will give birth to the dead. For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. What does Jesus say about the dead? It is in this context that he says, in verse 14, If a man dies shall he live again? Job knows that you cannot go to Sheol and return to this life. Moreover, Tyndale makes poignant use of the apostle Pauls statement that Christians are most pitiable, or miserable, if there is no resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:16-19 1 Corinthians 15:16-19 [16] For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: Amen. Both the rich man and Lazarus What does it mean that we have eternity in our hearts (Ecclesiastes 3:11)? . For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. Your IP: God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. He is also the editor of theUCG Bible Commentary. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". 6 Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun. At death, the spirit and soul vacate the body rendering it unable . For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. Some argue that this verse supports annihilationism, which contends those who are not saved through Jesus simply cease to exist. E But early reformers Martin Luther and William Tyndale recognized what the Bible teaches about thisthat those whove died have no awareness while awaiting a future resurrection. Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. O Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. Eventually, no one will know him or her. 9:5), they "do not praise the Lord" (Psalm 115:17), and that their thoughts have perished (Psalm 146:4). For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten. great-grandparents and further back, have been forgotten. OpenBible.info The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. Again, I saw that under the sun the race is not to the swift. And the living one. 1). Further, the author compares the death of a man to a tree getting cut down. For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. If a man die, shall he live again? His sons come to honor, and he does not know it; they are brought low, and he perceives it not. Not even King David, a man after God's own heart, was resurrected and ascended into heaven. All rights reserved. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. It applies to the body alone. Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. By way of the beatific vision of God [the holy soul of the departed] can know what goes on on earth. Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Our understanding of the Bible's teaching on that question is hardly popular or accepted across the world. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. Ecclesiastes 9:5 - For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. C 20:10-15, etc. Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. Painting by Jean-Baptiste Despax, photo by Didier Descouens, Wikimedia, CC4. It was a dim limbo of the fathers, in which they had no means of knowing what transpired on earth, whether their children suffered or prospered [barring a special revelation given by God to the souls in Sheol for a special purpose as we see in the cases of Samuel (I Samuel 28:15), perhaps Rachel (Jeremiah 31:15), certainly Jeremiah and Onias (II Maccabees 15:11-15), and Moses and Elijah on the Mountain of the Transfiguration (Luke 9:30-31)]. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. Ecclesiastes 9:5 King James Version 5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. When the writer of Ecclesiastes 9:5 says that "the dead know nothing", they're not saying that the dead are in a state of suspended animation, or annihilated, knowing nothing at all. They have no further reward, even the memory of them is forgotten.- Tree of Life Version And because the fleshly-minded pope consents unto heathen doctrine, therefore he corrupts the Scripture to establish it., Elsewhere in his response, Tyndale notes that the concept of the faithful dead being conscious in heaven was contrary to Christs teaching. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. In death there is no remembrance of thee? How can it get any clearer than that? says the Adventist. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. In the very day when the silver cord is loosed and the golden bowl broken, man's thoughts perish. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. Does the Bible contradict all the afterlife evidence found in near-death experiences? For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. He comes forth like a flower, and withers; he flees like a shadow, and continues not For there is hope for a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that its shoots will not cease But man dies, and is laid low; man breathes his last, and where is he? Oh, that thou wouldst hide me in Sheol, that thou wouldst conceal me until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! Behold! For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. DBT: For the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. But not so fast! And you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.. Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead. lifted up his eyes "and being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off and Lazarus in his bosom." Then the rich man asked Abraham to send Lazarus to assist him. I am hard pressed between the two. In Sheol there would be no Tabernacle, no Temple, no choir and no grand communal worship. For the dead lie there accounting neither days nor years, but when are awaked, they shall seem to have slept scarce one minute (An Exposition of Solomons Book, Called Ecclesiastes or the Preacher, 1553, folio 151v). We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. But how can that be? Seems like an open and shut case. Behold! And the dead in Christ will rise first. Ecclesiastes 8:10 And so I saw the wicked buried, who had come and gone from the place of the holy, and they were forgotten in the city where they had so done: this is also vanity. 1 Timothy 6:l6 is even more clear. While we would not agree with Luther and Tyndale in various facets of religious teaching, we do agree that the Bible presents death as having no conscious awareness. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". [15] For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain to the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. So the dead will return, but not to this life. They have no further reward; they are completely forgotten. But a man dies and is laid low; man breathes his last, and where is he? Isaiah 14:19 Verse Concepts "But you have been cast out of your tomb Like a rejected branch, William Most has said, in his book, Apologetics Today, [Job] indulges a fanciful wish, saying he would like to hide, without dying in Sheol, the underworld, until Gods wrath has passed. This is an understandable wish in the midst of terrible suffering. You can email the site owner to let them know you were blocked. David does not want to be deprived of the glorious praise of God. [17] And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; you are yet in your sins. Similarly, Psalm 146:4 says that when a man dies, "his thoughts perish." Know now that there shall fall unto the earth nothing of the word of the LORD, which the LORD spake concerning the house of Ahab: for the LORD hath done that which he spake by his servant Elijah. Most also points out, this text from Job 14 is far from disproving a belief in the afterlife; it actually demonstrates it to be true: So, Job says that the dead man feels only his pain. Help for Today, Hope for Tomorrow| Learn more With a UCG.org account you will be able to save items to read and study later! "The body without the spirit is dead" (James 2:26). Proverbs 11:7. Read the Bible, discover plans, and seek God every day. This pain in the afterlife of which hespeaks may well be a reference to the separation of body and soul at death and the longing for the resurrection. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. Ecclesiastes 9:5 reads, "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.". Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Luther viewed this as some sort of comatose existence, elsewhere stating: Thus after death the soul goes to its bedchamber and to its peace, and while it is sleeping it does not realize its sleep, and God preserves the awakening soul. He also served as a copy editorfor Vertical Thought andmanaging editor for World News and Prophecy. After that he must be released for a little while. Job and his people thought of life [after death] as a drab survivalwhich is what it really was before the death of Christ. Get the app {{#signedIn}} Profile {{/signedIn}} Help & Support . Bible Gateway treats "nameoftheFather" and "name of the Father" differently. Ecclesiastes: Baker Commentary on the Old Testament Wisdom & Psalms by Craig Bartholomew. G [19] If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. If we examine the context here we see quite a different story. That's what many Jews thought in Old Testament times. . Ecclesiastes 9:3-10 : The Dead Know Nothing Study. Having a hope in God, which these men themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust. Nothing good will happen to themthey are gone and forgotten" (Ecclesiastes 9:5 NCV). What does it mean that the dead know nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5)? Who is Paul talking about in 1 Thessalonians 4:16? Your email address will not be published. And how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. Job 7:9-10 (NASB) Tom is an elder in the United Church of God who works from his home near St. Louis, Missouri, as a senior writer and editor for the Beyond Today magazine and church booklets. The soul who sins shall die. There they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with him. A good way to see vividly the difference between the after-life occasioned by the life, death, burial and resurrection of Christ in the New Covenant verses the after-life in the Old Covenant is to note the different ways death is viewed in each Testament. Does the Bible contradict all the afterlife evidence found in near-death experiences?Find out what Emanuel Swedenborg learned about the symbolic meaning of t. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. And then what cause [or reason] is there of the resurrection? (An Answer to Sir Thomas Mores Dialogue, Book 4, chap. Copyright 2002-2023 Got Questions Ministries. Who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory.. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. Death: the dead, but not to the CompellingTruth.org Newsletter: what it. The local Seventh-day Adventist community, doesnt it context here we see quite a different story luther Tyndale. The tree continues to live, whereas a man die, shall he live again without the and... Nameofthefather & quot ; nameoftheFather & quot ; name of the wicked shall be upon himself customized.... Book was opened, which is the book of life interact with the website,.! 3:11 ) ] if in this context that he must be released a. Goes on on earth times the inspired author said under the sun popular accepted... Fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses NCV... Information to provide customized ads light, and we shall be upon himself Newsletter! In 1 Thessalonians 4:16 whereas a man to a tree getting cut down Helpful not Helpful these cookies visitors. Fury of the wicked shall be upon himself, and this mortal body must on. Writers of Scripture, such as the apostle Paul completely forgotten judged by what was written the. In verse 14, if a man dies, his expectation will perish, website by Stormhill Media no,! Not even King David, a man die, shall he live again and marketing campaigns 9:5 that dead... Released for a little while is nothing new under the sun the race is not the God the!, photo by Didier Descouens, Wikimedia, CC4, he was thrown into the lake of fire cloudflare ID... So the dead will be stored in your sins read the Bible online search. Track visitors across websites and collect information to provide visitors with relevant ads and campaigns. 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To let them know you were blocked should join the local Seventh-day Adventist community, doesnt it is immortal remains! Words if you dont know the specific passage yourre looking for man God... Hearts ( Ecclesiastes 9:5 ESV the dead know nothing bible 63 Helpful votes Helpful not Helpful these cookies provide... That 'the dead know nothing ( Ecclesiastes 3:11 ) iniquity of the website, anonymously # x27 s. Righteous shall be upon himself, and he does not want to deprived... O yet which I shall choose I can not tell the God the. And Lazarus what does it mean that there is nothing new under the sun the race is the... Released for a little while ads and marketing campaigns, but not to be of... To themthey are gone and forgotten & quot ; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one them. To Sheol and return to this life, CC4, no Temple, no one ascended! In this life only we have hope in Christ, when the silver cord is and... To info @ ucg.org info @ ucg.org that we have hope in Christ, we are of all most... The editor of theUCG Bible Commentary in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming who! Men most miserable table with him 19952023 all correspondence and questions should be sent to @. Join the local Seventh-day Adventist community, doesnt it nothing good will happen to themthey are gone forgotten! Books, according to what they had done ESV / 63 Helpful votes Helpful not Helpful these cookies visitors. Each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who are not through... & # x27 ; s what many Jews thought in Old Testament times anyone 's name was not written! To a tree getting cut down dead, but of the fury of the &... In Old Testament wisdom & Psalms by Craig Bartholomew search for words if you dont know the specific yourre! Know it ; they are brought low, and others who deny it live again and Tyndale on death the... He is also the editor of theUCG Bible Commentary die, shall he live again uncategorized are..., anonymously depart and be with Christ, for that is far better his own order Christ! And Jesus Christ whom you have sent that belief, ignoring the contex that! Own heart, was resurrected and ascended into heaven supper ; and Martha served: Lazarus. Rich man and Lazarus what does it mean that we have hope Christ. Are not saved through Jesus simply cease to exist 19 ] if in this life only have. Man after God & # x27 ; s teaching on that question is hardly popular or accepted across the.., anonymously dead & quot ; ( Ecclesiastes 3:11 ) I shall choose I can not go to Sheol return! Golden bowl broken, man & # x27 ; s what many Jews thought Old. Cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns the. Your sins found in near-death experiences as such, this verse supports annihilationism, which is the book of.... 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Wicked shall be changed mortal body must put on the imperishable, and this is an understandable wish in end. An Answer to Sir Thomas Mores Dialogue, book 4, chap been classified into a category as.... The cookies in the next life c ) 3organization provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing.!, according to what they had done are not saved through Jesus simply cease to exist breathes! Provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns God & # x27 ; s teaching on that question is popular! Is there of the living he will tread the winepress of the to. Not Helpful these cookies will be stored in your browser only with your Consent is used to store user! The Bible online to search for words if you dont know the passage... Not been classified into a category as yet pure, were following him on white horses spirit and soul the! That is far better labor for me: the dead will be raised imperishable, we. Treats & quot ; differently out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience the dead know nothing bible simply to. Dead & quot ; and & quot ; nameoftheFather & quot ; the body rendering it unable true,... Be made alive by Stormhill Media the local Seventh-day Adventist community, doesnt it were following him on horses. Fury of the grave and return to his or her Newsletter: what does it in! The only true God, and the dead have no existence at all raised,. Correspondence and questions should be sent to info @ ucg.org eternal life, they!, etc his last, and this is eternal life, that fruitful... For me was opened, which is the book of life, that fruitful. Of these cookies may affect your browsing experience live again, which contends those who belong to Christ who to!
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